Equipment or playskill? - Guild Wars Forums

cloudbunny · Sep 30, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

There is a lot of discussions about what equipment that is the "best", but very little about how to train your play skill.

How do you train your play skill most efficient (for PvE)?

To me, stats in GW only seem to have marginal effects. Some extra 5 energy, 10 armour or 10% damage might be nice, but your playskill is much more important than that. It is easy to get (almost) maxed out equipment, and not very expensive if you go for a mix of collector/high req/cheap skins/greens.

To be a very good player however, takes a good deal more (much more than I hope to achieve). I guess spending the same amount of time trying to get a better player instead of farming for better equipment would give you better payoff "efficiencywise". Farming is a skill in its own, but is mainly based on repetative patterns.

In my opinion a "good" player should be able to handle most situations in a good way. Have knowledge not only about one particular build, but a large range of builds of your proffesion.Then also know about main builds and most skills for other proffesions as well. Be able to handle a large range of different "non standard" team builds in hard areas. Be able to lead a party in an efficient way. To me the mark of a "good team" is to be able to go through an area like FoW/UW/Deep/Urzog/Tombs without any knowledge at all before hand about what is coming. I guess few are that good.

You can train yourself in so many ways, increase the difficulty gradually. Do medium hard areas "naked" with starter equipment (forest minotaurs will then hit like Aatraxes). Do hard areas with weird teambuilds, etc etc. Do a lot experiements with skills and builds!

For PvE-only players, some PvP experience is very nice to have. It gives some perspective. :-)

I guess not as easy as getting a 15^50 Fellblade. :-)

regards,
Cloudbunny

Carth` · Sep 30, 2006, 09:42 AM // 09:42

PvE is basically about experience. Someone who has been to FoW 100 times will be better at FoW than a really amazing player who has never been there.

cloudbunny · Sep 30, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Of course, that goes with the predictability!

But a player that have done FoW 100 times may not do a new elite mission on sight very well. With a "good player" I mean someone that can do good in new, unknown environments as well. A player who also can handle a broad spectra of different situations and teambuilds.

Regards,
Cloudbunny

Zexion · Sep 30, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

PvE is basically about experience. Someone who has been to FoW 100 times will be better at FoW than a really amazing player who has never been there.

But what about when NF comes out? How do you become skilled, in the way that you will be better than the average person when you enter the new elite PvE area in GWN? An area noone has had the time to practice in.

_Zexion

manitoba1073 · Sep 30, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

if u think farming and that is predictable, ur in for a big surprise. i have yet to a better PvE team than a farming team. no ifs and buts.

cloudbunny · Sep 30, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Spawns places, monster types, their skills, the terrain, extra challenges (aka elite missions) are pretty wellknown for a farming team! That's what I mean with predicatbility!

If the same team makes the same farming run 10 times in a row I guess movements, skill used etc. would be pretty much the same. Some small variations of course.

Of course, many good players do a lot of farming, but all good farmers are not necessarily good players in other environments!

regards,
Cloudbunny

sinican · Sep 30, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Learn you character....

experiment with different skill combinations instead of cookie cutter builds...

A lot of players stack their skill bars for maximum dmg output or maximum healing capabilities...

learn what your skills do learn when the best time is to use them

find end game areas and attempt to solo them with your characters by chosing variations of skills to counter your environment...

Zakarr · Sep 30, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

First you have to understand what different skills do. If you don't, then you can't sense what is dangerous and you can be killed easily. Also learn what advantages each primary profession has. Then look what skills monsters/players use and compare it to what you and other party members have. Think what are the most harmful skills for your party and try to eliminate them first. Learn to flee if things get too messy. Many will rely on monks and these monks will be in heavy pressure because "godly" players waste their resources. You can't solo everything.

After that it is pretty much common sense how you should move and attack and requires only experience to master your timings and awareness of your surrounding.

Some players underestimate for example timing. They just blindly burst everything they got and in worst scenario their input was almost useless. Several skills are nothing if you don't know when they are effective.

That is the beauty of GW. It doesn't matter if someone find out good build if they can't use it well enough. Only skillful players will prevail unless there is exploits in skills.

Vladmir Mironov · Sep 30, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Both?

Selket · Sep 30, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zexion

But what about when NF comes out? How do you become skilled, in the way that you will be better than the average person when you enter the new elite PvE area in GWN? An area noone has had the time to practice in.

_Zexion

Then its all down to how well you can micromanage your heroes and what skills you have unlocked.

Pandora's box · Sep 30, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakarr

That is the beauty of GW. It doesn't matter if someone find out good build if they can't use it well enough. Only skillful players will prevail unless there is exploits in skills.

Well... Not exactly. Thing is that to try out skills (and preventing a cooky cutter build), you need to know for what kind of team you are working out skill combinations. And that is the hardest part where many PvE players who just want to adventure have problems. Making your own team with henchies (or heroes in Nightfall) allows you to experience with your skills and find out good combinations. But in a human team its very likely that it wont work as you hoped.

Basically the item or skill discussion does not make much sense. Think of it: what is the difference between an armor (in other games) that would give you +2 healthgeneration and an enchantment in GW that does the same? The enchantment can be disenchanted and the armor can probably be disintegrated. Items or skills, it all depends on the one who figures out the best combinations.

The difference in GW is that your chr. can't do much on its own. Giving the impression that it does not make much difference what items or skills you use, as long as you are part of a decent team. But it does. So figure out several combinations of items and skills for serveral differend game situations, write them down, practice them and use them at the proper moments!

cloudbunny · Sep 30, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Basically the item or skill discussion does not make much sense.

What I meant was, many talk a lot about equipment, and of course skills, but there are not much talk about actual "playskill"

In my opinion equipment is rather secondary. A decent team can do almost anything with starter equipment (well. high lvl armour is of course nice to have). Skills and builds are of course important, but using a good build do not automatically make you a good player

An uber-SS necro is pretty useless if he moves in to soon and get all the agro. A monk overhealing and wasting all energy is not very good, warriors running away "not to waste adrenelin" are not a big hit either. There are a lot of skill in this game that not come as bonus when you get top build/equipment.

There are not much discussion/guides on these matters. It took long before I found a guide that told about how a very basic concept like agro worked in the game (I then mean the "not-so-obvious" things like what monsters set priority on of hp and armour).

One thing I learnt a lot from is that in my Guild/Alliance we use to get together 8 ppl and see who comes and with what builds (experiment builds are well liked). That make out for funny and surprising trips (SF with 5 necros and no MM, The Deep with 1 monk etc). You get some funny experience that way, and it very often go surprisingly well.

Regards,
Cloudbunny

Maxiemonster · Sep 30, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

What kind of discussion is this? If you're a great player, it doesn't mean you can just walk around in half-decent armor instead of the perfect one. If you're skilled, you should still have great equipement, since it still makes you better, so why even bother discussing this?

Chris Blackstar · Sep 30, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

A well skilled player understands and knows how to properly adabt to every situation. They also understand the three types of build dynamics, aggressive, defensive, and balanced. They will be able to determaine which build will work best, depending on the situation at hand, and exacute their skills in a way that will support, cause damage, or absorb damage from the foe or foes that will best support the team, and will maintain survivablity to their characters. Lastly they will understand the stragity to overcoming and manageing crowd control, when dealing with large groups, and have the ability to lead or coordinate with other team members that will best help the team achieve their goals.

Go with a team that understands and practices what I have just explained, and your experence will be most rewarding, no matter wether you win or lose, more often you will win(PvE), although with (PvP) it depends.

Go with a team that does not have what I explained, and you will get frustrated and most likely quit.

As for equipment, it depends on the players personal style for what they prefer.

cloudbunny · Sep 30, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxiemonster

What kind of discussion is this? If you're a great player, it doesn't mean you can just walk around in half-decent armor instead of the perfect one. If you're skilled, you should still have great equipement, since it still makes you better, so why even bother discussing this?

Just to clarify, this is not a discussion about equipment vs. skills.

It about how to become a more skilled player.
Everybody can get a "perfect" weapon cheap. Everyone can find a a "perfect" build. But how do you get the rest - the actual play skill?

Regards,
Cloudbunny

Franco · Sep 30, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Elite mission suck compared to FOW and UW. In a Elite mission you dont get experience from quests, the drops are crap, (yeah theres the ocasional zodiac sword that might drop with a chance of 100 because its spamming with weird scepters and staffs) Chests in fow and uw are better then elite mission chests, You get loads of exp from fow and uw in quests, ectos and obsdian shards much better then the usual crap you get in elite mission.

Yeah there are the greens at the end but

Deep

Kanaxai mallet = worth nothing
kanaxai axe = 40-60k ?
kanaxai edge = 60-80k?

But does anyone buy them? I never bought those greens.

Urgoz

Urgoz shortbow = 20k ?
Urgoz flatbow = 40k
Urgoz longbow = 100k ?

Longbows suck.... Anyway

there is only the 3/12 chance that you will get them , and if you complete the mission which is hard. In my opinion a FOW team and UW team has a much more enjoyable and profitable experience then these elite missions where you get someone on TS or team chat whos been there 100 times to get a 10k green shouting at you telling you what to do.

Sep 30, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38	#1
cloudbunny Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2006 Guild: DVD Forums (DVDF)	Equipment or playskill? There is a lot of discussions about what equipment that is the "best", but very little about how to train your play skill. How do you train your play skill most efficient (for PvE)? To me, stats in GW only seem to have marginal effects. Some extra 5 energy, 10 armour or 10% damage might be nice, but your playskill is much more important than that. It is easy to get (almost) maxed out equipment, and not very expensive if you go for a mix of collector/high req/cheap skins/greens. To be a very good player however, takes a good deal more (much more than I hope to achieve). I guess spending the same amount of time trying to get a better player instead of farming for better equipment would give you better payoff "efficiencywise". Farming is a skill in its own, but is mainly based on repetative patterns. In my opinion a "good" player should be able to handle most situations in a good way. Have knowledge not only about one particular build, but a large range of builds of your proffesion.Then also know about main builds and most skills for other proffesions as well. Be able to handle a large range of different "non standard" team builds in hard areas. Be able to lead a party in an efficient way. To me the mark of a "good team" is to be able to go through an area like FoW/UW/Deep/Urzog/Tombs without any knowledge at all before hand about what is coming. I guess few are that good. You can train yourself in so many ways, increase the difficulty gradually. Do medium hard areas "naked" with starter equipment (forest minotaurs will then hit like Aatraxes). Do hard areas with weird teambuilds, etc etc. Do a lot experiements with skills and builds! For PvE-only players, some PvP experience is very nice to have. It gives some perspective. :-) I guess not as easy as getting a 15^50 Fellblade. :-) regards, Cloudbunny

Sep 30, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14	#3
cloudbunny Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2006 Guild: DVD Forums (DVDF)	Of course, that goes with the predictability! But a player that have done FoW 100 times may not do a new elite mission on sight very well. With a "good player" I mean someone that can do good in new, unknown environments as well. A player who also can handle a broad spectra of different situations and teambuilds. Regards, Cloudbunny Last edited by cloudbunny; Sep 30, 2006 at 10:17 AM // 10:17..

Sep 30, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03	#6
cloudbunny Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2006 Guild: DVD Forums (DVDF)	Spawns places, monster types, their skills, the terrain, extra challenges (aka elite missions) are pretty wellknown for a farming team! That's what I mean with predicatbility! If the same team makes the same farming run 10 times in a row I guess movements, skill used etc. would be pretty much the same. Some small variations of course. Of course, many good players do a lot of farming, but all good farmers are not necessarily good players in other environments! regards, Cloudbunny Last edited by cloudbunny; Sep 30, 2006 at 12:07 PM // 12:07..

Sep 30, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36	#14
Chris Blackstar Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: United States	A well skilled player understands and knows how to properly adabt to every situation. They also understand the three types of build dynamics, aggressive, defensive, and balanced. They will be able to determaine which build will work best, depending on the situation at hand, and exacute their skills in a way that will support, cause damage, or absorb damage from the foe or foes that will best support the team, and will maintain survivablity to their characters. Lastly they will understand the stragity to overcoming and manageing crowd control, when dealing with large groups, and have the ability to lead or coordinate with other team members that will best help the team achieve their goals. Go with a team that understands and practices what I have just explained, and your experence will be most rewarding, no matter wether you win or lose, more often you will win(PvE), although with (PvP) it depends. Go with a team that does not have what I explained, and you will get frustrated and most likely quit. As for equipment, it depends on the players personal style for what they prefer. Last edited by Chris Blackstar; Sep 30, 2006 at 05:42 PM // 17:42..

Sep 30, 2006, 09:42 AM // 09:42	#2
Carth` Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2006	PvE is basically about experience. Someone who has been to FoW 100 times will be better at FoW than a really amazing player who has never been there.

Sep 30, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40	#5
manitoba1073 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station Guild: (SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi	if u think farming and that is predictable, ur in for a big surprise. i have yet to a better PvE team than a farming team. no ifs and buts.

Sep 30, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31	#7
sinican Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2006 Guild: SAW Profession: D/	Learn you character.... experiment with different skill combinations instead of cookie cutter builds... A lot of players stack their skill bars for maximum dmg output or maximum healing capabilities... learn what your skills do learn when the best time is to use them find end game areas and attempt to solo them with your characters by chosing variations of skills to counter your environment...

Sep 30, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27	#8
Zakarr Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: Finland	First you have to understand what different skills do. If you don't, then you can't sense what is dangerous and you can be killed easily. Also learn what advantages each primary profession has. Then look what skills monsters/players use and compare it to what you and other party members have. Think what are the most harmful skills for your party and try to eliminate them first. Learn to flee if things get too messy. Many will rely on monks and these monks will be in heavy pressure because "godly" players waste their resources. You can't solo everything. After that it is pretty much common sense how you should move and attack and requires only experience to master your timings and awareness of your surrounding. Some players underestimate for example timing. They just blindly burst everything they got and in worst scenario their input was almost useless. Several skills are nothing if you don't know when they are effective. That is the beauty of GW. It doesn't matter if someone find out good build if they can't use it well enough. Only skillful players will prevail unless there is exploits in skills.

Sep 30, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49	#9
Vladmir Mironov Academy Page Join Date: Sep 2006 Guild: The Almighty	Both?

Sep 30, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18	#13
Maxiemonster There is no spoon. Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Netherlands Profession: Mo/	What kind of discussion is this? If you're a great player, it doesn't mean you can just walk around in half-decent armor instead of the perfect one. If you're skilled, you should still have great equipement, since it still makes you better, so why even bother discussing this?

Sep 30, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07	#16
Franco Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: England Guild: VoB Profession: Me/	Elite mission suck compared to FOW and UW. In a Elite mission you dont get experience from quests, the drops are crap, (yeah theres the ocasional zodiac sword that might drop with a chance of 100 because its spamming with weird scepters and staffs) Chests in fow and uw are better then elite mission chests, You get loads of exp from fow and uw in quests, ectos and obsdian shards much better then the usual crap you get in elite mission. Yeah there are the greens at the end but Deep Kanaxai mallet = worth nothing kanaxai axe = 40-60k ? kanaxai edge = 60-80k? But does anyone buy them? I never bought those greens. Urgoz Urgoz shortbow = 20k ? Urgoz flatbow = 40k Urgoz longbow = 100k ? Longbows suck.... Anyway there is only the 3/12 chance that you will get them , and if you complete the mission which is hard. In my opinion a FOW team and UW team has a much more enjoyable and profitable experience then these elite missions where you get someone on TS or team chat whos been there 100 times to get a 10k green shouting at you telling you what to do.